WANTED: 22LR Target Rifle

[Warwick34]

A friend is looking to get started with target shooting and before spending any serious amount of cash he asked me to pop up a wanted ad.  So if anyone has a Anschutz 1813 or other using the 54 action, a Walther of similar ilk or something alog those lines (no BSA Internationals) can you please let me know and I will pass on the details.  He is located in Warwickshire.

[Hitchphil]

...... are they part of the Warwick Uni club or a member of BYSA? if so they can help.

[Warwick34]

15 minutes ago, Hitchphil said:

...... are they part of the Warwick Uni club or a member of BYSA? if so they can help.

No they're not,  just a friend looking for a target rifle, I've had some responses on other forums already so he's got a few to mull over. 

[Hitchphil]

6 minutes ago, Warwick34 said:

No they're not,  just a friend looking for a target rifle, I've had some responses on other forums already so he's got a few to mull over. 

For your benefit (& maybe those that think there precious Anschutz are worth a heck of a lot?) - the are literally 100's if not 1000s of them for sale. most values asked for are about 2-3x what I pay for them for club, uni clubs & scouts etc.  Its a buyers market.

 

[Warwick34]

Horses for courses, I like my Supermatch for personal reasons, yes they're hundreds of them but many in flavours that don't appeal to me. 

And why for my benefit, you going to tell me I should like what you do? 

[jamesgutteridge]

8 hours ago, Warwick34 said:

Horses for courses, I like my Supermatch for personal reasons, yes they're hundreds of them but many in flavours that don't appeal to me. 

And why for my benefit, you going to tell me I should like what you do? 

I think Phil's point is that your friend can likely find a very good deal on Anschutz rifles because they're so commonly used, so worth not just going for the first one you're offered.

[Warwick34]

28 minutes ago, jamesgutteridge said:

I think Phil's point is that your friend can likely find a very good deal on Anschutz rifles because they're so commonly used, so worth not just going for the first one you're offered.

Thanks for the reply, my friend shoots FTR 6.5 cr so he knows about rifles, he wants to get into 22 disciplines for his own reasons as his 452 (trainer) that he shoots mainly prone isn't doing it for him so he wants to get something more tailored. 

The Supermatch he's after is the model that he wants (nostalgia) and I don't blame him, they're an excellent rifle for the money and yes many variations of the 54 action are available but an 1813 Supermatch in good order mechanically and cosmetically.. Not so much. 

The post that was knocking Annie's did have hints of condescending overtones to it which don't really help this thread. 

[tim s]

1 hour ago, jamesgutteridge said:

I think Phil's point is that your friend can likely find a very good deal on Anschutz rifles because they're so commonly used, so worth not just going for the first one you're offered.

I took the "precious" to mean that some owners overvalued their rifles; an 1813 will be 35-40 years old, yet some sellers price like nearly new. I think he meant it's worth haggling, rather than Anschutz rifles aren't any good.

[Hitchphil]

3 hours ago, tim s said:

I took the "precious" to mean that some owners overvalued their rifles; an 1813 will be 35-40 years old, yet some sellers price like nearly new. I think he meant it's worth haggling, rather than Anschutz rifles aren't any good.

Indeed many become attached to their rifles, so when time comes to dispose of it, they might over value as its precious to them. Maybe some relate 2nd hand value to original purchase price? even current new price? whereas there is a thing called 'market price' that is a function of how many are out there for sale (lots) & how may are seeking them (fewer & fewer).

I rarely pay more than £200 for a Match 54, (mk2 round boltback, 2 claw) maybe £250 for a mint 64, never paid more than £350 for a M54 thumbhole or an 1813 unless its an X. 

So when helping your mate find a suitable rifle for 'not a serious amount of cash' - you have plenty of scope to find a good one & haggle too. Far from condescending? (where du get that from?)  Anschutz rifles are bullet proof, safe, reliable & effective rifles. 

There are plenty of 1813's out there but beware of a M54's being swapped in to a 2nd hand stocks (becuse people like me upgraded stock) I see that, even an old Mk1 54 with its single claw extractor being passed of as a 'Supermatch' becuse its in a thumbhole stock. 

The one thing I will slag off is the 1st generation Anschutz cast metal stocks. I have one & had it welded & heat treated (HIPed) to make it work. The metal is very poor quality die casting design; full of gas porosity, casting & brittle cooling flaws & an unsuitable sections for strength. - Avoid - So much for German engineering!? & I can say that as a degree qualified Metallurgist!  the Precise or CNC from forged stock are very good, but imho the Nibbs Gemini is just better. (beer later Robert 😉 ) 

The reason I asked about Uni or BYSA is we can get good rifles into those shooters & clubs for them to use for free / token hire & they can buy them for a keen price after a short period proving they like it, on a donate or sell back agreement. We are regularly offered Anschutz rifles free or for a token price to do that.  

[tim s]

5 hours ago, Hitchphil said:

never paid more than £350 for a M54 thumbhole or an 1813 unless its an X.

There are plenty of 1813's out there but beware of a M54's being swapped in to a 2nd hand stocks (becuse people like me upgraded stock) I see that, even an old Mk1 54 with its single claw extractor being passed of as a 'Supermatch' becuse its in a thumbhole stock. 

Phil,

I agree with your comments. I just have a couple of points to clarify:

1) An 1813 does not normally have an X. You're thinking of the 1813's predecessor, the 1613. There are rumours that the X indicates a selected barrel, but I don't believe that's true*. Every Match 54 made at this time has the X. Anschutz added an X, because they still marketed these improved Match 54s as 1413/11/07. Before they hit upon 16xx, they needed some way to differentiate a 1413 with the new bolt and trigger from a 1413 with the old wing-safety bolt. Some very early 18xx rifles were built on unused 16xx receivers/ barreled-receivers (mostly LH rifles from experience), but most 1813s are not, and so have no X after the serial number. I have a circa 1981 1813 with an X, but it's an oddity. An 1813 has very few parts in common with a 1613; bolt, bolt handle, firing pin, springs, trigger, barrel are all different. 

2) Supermatch doesn't just mean an 1813. Anschutz have used the term to refer to their top-of-the-line Olympic Free Rifle since 1954. It was originally the Super Match 54, later Super-Match. They were possibly influenced by Western Supermatch cartridges, then a world leader. Remember, Anschutz didn't use model numbers until ca 1960. So before then, they had the prone-orientated Match 54 (later 1411),  the basic 3P proto-Standard Rifle Match 54 Lightweight (later 1407, and influencing the 1408) and the Super Match 54 Free Rifle. Walther just called everything KKM at the time! A 1950s Supermatch is still a Supermatch, even if there is only one claw, one barrel retaining pin, an old trigger, no adjustable cheekpiece, a short wall behind the LH lug recess, or any other feature of an early Match 54. Some sellers do incorrectly describe these older rifles rifles 1813 or 1913, but calling one a Supermatch is not wrong.

Apologies for the thread hijack, please resume normal programming.

 

*Now 1613 barrels are fractionally thicker that the muzzle than an 1813 or 1413. Someone pointed this out to me a few years ago. Every 1613 I've been able to measure has Bourne this out. No idea if it affects accuracy, but it's there.

[Hitchphil]

18 minutes ago, tim s said:

Phil,

I agree with your comments. I just have a couple of points to clarify:

1) An 1813 does not normally have an X. You're thinking of the 1813's predecessor, the 1613. Anschutz added an X, as initially they still called these rifles 1413/11/07. They needed some way to identify rifles with the new bolt and trigger. Some very early 18xx rifles were built on unused 16xx receivers/ barreled-receivers (mostly LH rifles from experience), but most 1813s are not, and so have no X after the serial number. I have a circa 1981 1813 with an X, but it's an oddity. An 1813 has very few parts in common with a 1613; bolt, bolt handle, firing pin, springs, trigger, barrel are all different.

2) Supermatch doesn't just mean an 1813. Anschutz have used the term to refer to their top-of-the-line Olympic Free Rifle since 1954. They were possibly influenced by Western Supermatch cartridges, then a world leader. Remember, Anschutz didn't use model numbers until ca 1960, so they needed some way to differentiate the prone-orientated Match 54(later 1411), from the basic 3P Lightweight/Standard (later 1407, and influencing the 1408) from the Free Rifle. Walther just called everything KKM at the time! A 1950s Supermatch is still a Supermatch, even if there is only one claw, one barrel retaining pin, an old trigger, no adjustable cheekpiece, a short wall behind the LH lug recess, or any other feature of an early Match 54. Some sellers do incorrectly describe these older rifles rifles 1813 or 1913, but calling one one Supermatch is not wrong.

 

Apologies for the thread hijack, please resume normal programming.

U learn somit new every day! 🙂 - I was under the impression that the many old M54's in a thumbhole stock, but a solid butt hook were the precursor 'M54 Thumbhole'- they dont have the words Supermatch on them.  My rifle says "1813 Supermatch", cant say i have ever noticed such a rifle called 1813 without Supermatch being added though? But yes there are many flavours & most work well. Kids struggle with the single claw extractors as they often simply turn the case round on the loading tray vs eject & shorter arms struggle to fish them out. I have noted the mk1 bolts tend to not lock as reliably as the newer versions too but that might just be wear. 

[tim s]

On 24/11/2021 at 12:10, Hitchphil said:

U learn somit new every day! 🙂 - I was under the impression that the many old M54's in a thumbhole stock, but a solid butt hook were the precursor 'M54 Thumbhole'- they dont have the words Supermatch on them.  My rifle says "1813 Supermatch", cant say i have ever noticed such a rifle called 1813 without Supermatch being added though? But yes there are many flavours & most work well. Kids struggle with the single claw extractors as they often simply turn the case round on the loading tray vs eject & shorter arms struggle to fish them out. I have noted the mk1 bolts tend to not lock as reliably as the newer versions too but that might just be wear. 

Phil 

Anschutz started out marking barrels with the specific name/number for the barrel/stock combo: Super Match 54, 1413 Super-Match etc. They changed this to a generic "Modell Match 54" in 1965 or so, until 1980 when they switched to "Mod 1813 Super-Match" for all 69cm heavy barrels, and "Mod 1807" for all 66cm barrels regardless of the stock. Throw in continual stock updates, and it can be hard to tell what flavour of Match 54 one has.

There were also the 1409/1410 rifles which were cheaper versions if the 1413. Through the 1950s and 1960s these omitted LOP adjustment. 

Single piece hooks were just the norm until about 1970. It's been a long time since I used one, but I remember it being more comfortable than the replacement, which only contacted at the heel and tip of the hook.

Yes, the single claw bolts are a pain. The case drags on the loading loading tray, and pops out from under the extractor. I've never noticed a difference in lock up though; as far as I know the lugs have not changed ever. 14xx bolts do have a different spring plunger to ensure the lugs are seated. That might be what you feel, other than wear. If Anschutz have changed the chamber spec, that would affect bullet engagement.

[chris thompson]

On 20/11/2021 at 16:24, Warwick34 said:

A friend is looking to get started with target shooting and before spending any serious amount of cash he asked me to pop up a wanted ad.  So if anyone has a Anschutz 1813 or other using the 54 action, a Walther of similar ilk or something alog those lines (no BSA Internationals) can you please let me know and I will pass on the details.  He is located in Warwickshire.

I have 2 for sale

[chris thompson]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:42, chris thompson said:

I have 2 for sale

Put both up for sale again

[chris thompson]

Both up for sale again