Jump to content
Huey

Bedding Bolts For Match 54 In Supermatch Stock

Recommended Posts

Quick straw poll folks, we have a committee meeting on Friday to discuss the way forward.

 

I am obliged to look a (not entirely free) gift horse in the mouth as the club has been offered a Supermatch stock, but it appears the bedding bolts do not come with it (or cannot now be found...).

 

There was some very good information in this previous thread, but it may now be somewhat dated (and no price from Mister Neesom was given, that being seemingly the easiest route).

 

I think these bolts should also have the Belleville washer stack?

 

I would prefer Allen head, but obviously I will take slotted if that is what's on offer. Anyone got any lying around (particularly on an it-fits-or-return basis ;) ) or know of any outlets carrying stock?

 

No rush on getting them, just need to know that we can and how much the club's outlay may be.

 

Many thanks,

H.

 

Edit: I should add this is to swap out a standard stock for the better SM - for which I believe the bolts are different - and then we can pass on the old stock (with bolts!) to someone else.

Edited by Huey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huey,

 

I have a pair of bolts from a 1973 vintage 1413 Supermatch in the spares box, although the slot heads are chewed. The bolts might also need to be filed for length if your donor stock is an 1813 or 1913, as the 1413 is deeper at the front, or extra washers added.

 

I know that one equipment supplier was out of stock and was trying to find a new supplier.

 

If you know a friendly machinist the washer stack can be replaced with a solid bushing.

 

Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Tim, that's good to know. The slots could always be widened and deepened I'm sure. The original stock is (we believe) original with the model 1411 Match 54 (mfcr 1965) action and is a plain prone stock.

 

Ok, any other tidbits folks?

 

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could try the 1411 bolts. From memory a '65 1411 should have a fore-end level with the top of the triggerguard, so a little more shallow than a '73 1413 and pretty close to an 1813/1913. You might get away with some washers underneath.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huey, If the thumbhole stock you are interested in is the type that had Bellville washers on the original bedding bolts the bolts had Allen heads as standard. Many people replaced the Bellville washers with solid spacers, particularly if they had the stock/action epoxy bedded. I think the Bellville washers came in with the 1813 model , I'm sure Tim S can confirm that. I had a '74 1413 which was had slotted head bedding bolts, I also had a '79 1611 but I can't remember what type the bedding screws were.

 

Huey, I have a collection of Anschutz bedding bolts of different lengths & types. I live in Beckenham which is maybe not a million miles from you in South West London so maybe we can meet up if required.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are M6 x0.75 pitch you can buy them from some machine suppliers - i used to buy long M6 stainless then put a 0.75 tap down it to cut my own at '10% price charged by gunshops. What most shooting suppliers charge for a simple if not that common bolt is a scandal!

 

They can be bought from here - http://www.nssocketscrews.com/html/contact or here: http://www.stainlessautomotivefastenings.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=123_25&products_id=5002

 

the washers are M6 'Belleville', again easy & cheap to buy from a basic machine stockists -

 

Oh & if you want to avoid paying £25! wt?! for a lever arm bolt for stock / hand stop adjustment get them here for £3 +pp http://www.boneham.co.uk/shop/product/adjustable_clamping_lever_erm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can someone summarise what the purpose of the belville washers (versus a solid spacer) is?

 

(Apologies for thread drift, but this may also be of help to the OP.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not entirely sure what advantages washers have over a bushing, but I think the washers would provide more consistent pressure against the bolt head. That is assuming that both bear on wood which may expand or contract with changes in the weather. If the stock is pillar bedded or has an alu bedding block, then washers would be redundant as the bolts won't bear on wood at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, thanks for all the replies and suggestions so far :)

 

A quick update. I have compared the original bedding bolts for the stock with the new stock. They are looking like about 5mm too short. The rear bolt (trigger guard) is 37mm long (from the underside of the head) with 10mm of thread. The front one (recessed) is 26mm long with 8.5mm of thread. The slots on these bolts are in really good condition (typical!).

 

Apologies for confusing folk by me mentioning Belleville washers and thanks to hps for the mental trigger :wacko: . This stock is of course (!) too early for the allen headed bolts, and would have had (does have!) slotted heads - I just thought allen heads would be a choice upgrade that could be made seeing as we need new bolts. I was then sidetracked as I recall another stock we swapped out in the same way having the Belleville washers, but as hps states, this particular stock was from an 1813 rifle. N.B. the washer stack is held captive by pinch marks made on the shank of the bolt itself.

 

So, I reckon I need bolts measuring 42mm and 31mm.

 

Phil, if you're offering, make them slightly longer and I'll take them down as required and can you make the longer one countersunk so it looks better on the trigger guard. Pocket money waiting :D

 

Nick, cheers for broadening the knowledge base, good Q. My understanding has always been along the lines Tim stated. As the wooden stock swells and shrinks with moisture, the Belleville washer stack maintains the correct bedding torque throughout. The washers are angled (directional) and the stack is a combination of washers facing either direction.

 

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, thanks for the info on the belvilles. What I often wonder about is what state of compression (if that's the right expression) they are in at the recommended torque. If they are fully compressed then presumably they are effectively operating in the same way as a solid spacer. If they aren't fully compressed, how accurate is the torque you're applying? Putting it another way, if I torque to, say, 4NM, would the effect (I suppose by this I mean the extent to which the action is pulled down onto the stock) be the same with and without the washers?

 

Anyway, it seems to work OK so perhaps I should stop wondering...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Belleville washers ensure the end load of the screw is transmitted as compression of the stock to the action. A solid bush wont, some of the torque load is lost compressing the bush & then as friction under the head of the screw. Belleville washers slide over each other to translate more of the applied torque into axial load. They also help distribute load over a wider area & accommodate some expansion of wood with temperature / moisture. They are there for good reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, thanks for all the replies and suggestions so far :)

 

A quick update. I have compared the original bedding bolts for the stock with the new stock. They are looking like about 5mm too short. The rear bolt (trigger guard) is 37mm long (from the underside of the head) with 10mm of thread. The front one (recessed) is 26mm long with 8.5mm of thread. The slots on these bolts are in really good condition (typical!).

 

Apologies for confusing folk by me mentioning Belleville washers and thanks to hps for the mental trigger :wacko: . This stock is of course (!) too early for the allen headed bolts, and would have had (does have!) slotted heads - I just thought allen heads would be a choice upgrade that could be made seeing as we need new bolts. I was then sidetracked as I recall another stock we swapped out in the same way having the Belleville washers, but as hps states, this particular stock was from an 1813 rifle. N.B. the washer stack is held captive by pinch marks made on the shank of the bolt itself.

 

So, I reckon I need bolts measuring 42mm and 31mm.

 

Phil, if you're offering, make them slightly longer and I'll take them down as required and can you make the longer one countersunk so it looks better on the trigger guard. Pocket money waiting :D

 

Nick, cheers for broadening the knowledge base, good Q. My understanding has always been along the lines Tim stated. As the wooden stock swells and shrinks with moisture, the Belleville washer stack maintains the correct bedding torque throughout. The washers are angled (directional) and the stack is a combination of washers facing either direction.

 

H.

will check shed later this week & see what length i have but i think I got ones with a 30mm un-threaded shank & threaded that, so poss cant do 42mm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

will check shed later this week & see what length i have but i think I got ones with a 30mm un-threaded shank & threaded that, so poss cant do 42mm.

Cheers bud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could try the 1411 bolts. From memory a '65 1411 should have a fore-end level with the top of the triggerguard, so a little more shallow than a '73 1413 and pretty close to an 1813/1913. You might get away with some washers underneath.

Tim, you are a prince amongst men. All safely received today, many thanks. Should indeed be able to work a fix with those.

 

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×